12:00:49 <nijel> #startmeeting Monthly meeting 2017-10
12:00:51 <pmabot> Meeting started Wed Oct 11 12:00:49 2017 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is nijel. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
12:00:52 <pmabot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
12:00:54 <pmabot> The meeting name has been set to 'monthly_meeting_2017_10'
12:01:01 <nijel> Hello everybody , the team meeting is about to start ;-)
12:01:20 <ibennetch> Hello
12:01:24 <mauriciofauth> hello
12:01:40 <nijel> I can see we have ibennetch and mauriciofauth from the team
12:01:53 <nijel> Shall we wait for somebody else?
12:03:52 <ibennetch> I didn't see any other email responses, so perhaps not this time. However, I don't mind waiting if you want to; I'm not in a rush.
12:04:28 <nijel> Okay, let's start then...
12:04:32 <nijel> #topic Next Team meeting
12:05:16 <nijel> I know I'm opening this again and again, but if we're going to meet at FOSDEM, it's probably time to start preparing things...
12:05:53 <nijel> Of course there are other meeting options, which are further in the year, so we can postpone the decision about these
12:06:16 <ibennetch> Hehe
12:06:20 <ibennetch> It's important to keep discussing it :)
12:06:42 <ibennetch> FOSDEM is 3 and 4 Feb
12:07:40 <ibennetch> It might be difficult for me because of some work things that are scheduled for the beginning of February. However, it would be a great conference to attend.
12:08:23 <nijel> BTW: 3 November is the deadline for stand proposals on FOSDEM
12:10:23 <nijel> on the other side for having stand we should have at least 3 people there, in order to be able to exchange and attend the talks as well
12:10:24 <ibennetch> Things may change as we get closer to the date, but the way our schedule is set now I don't think I could attend FOSDEM.
12:10:24 <mauriciofauth> And the Conservancy is considering having a mini-conference.
12:10:41 <ibennetch> Right, three people is a good minimum number to have at a stand.
12:12:23 <nijel> I haven't heard anything about the miniconf besides the original mail, so this is AFAIK still not decided
12:13:39 <nijel> I'm going to FOSDEM anyway as it's quite close and cheap to get there for me :-)
12:14:42 <ibennetch> I wonder if we could reimburse some or all of your cost for that, even though it's not an actual team meeting.
12:16:15 <nijel> ibennetch: Last year I got reimbursed as I was helping Conservancy. If we're not going to have our own stand, I will volunteer again, so we use same setup.
12:16:26 <ibennetch> Oh, good.
12:16:35 <ibennetch> Any other conferences that are highly desirable?
12:16:49 <ibennetch> I rather enjoyed LinuxTag.
12:17:31 <nijel> There was no LinuxTag this year, so it's hard to tell if there will be one next year
12:17:34 <ibennetch> There are also the huge PHP and MySQL/MariaDB conferences, although I wonder if they're too big.
12:18:33 <nijel> These are usually quite business oriented, what might not be best fit for us (unless we're going to look for sponsors there)
12:19:10 <ibennetch> That sort of was my fear.
12:19:26 <mauriciofauth> Are not these conferences expensive?
12:20:04 <ibennetch> Probably; I didn't actually look in to it. I remember last time we talked one of them was way too expensive, but don't remember which one that was.
12:20:28 <nijel> Another one I've considered is https://www.linuxdays.cz/, however the majority of talks was in Czech language this year...
12:21:46 <ibennetch> That would be difficult for me :)
12:22:31 <nijel> mauriciofauth: These are usually expensive, on the other side, we might get free tickets on some of them (last year I got offer for tickets to Percona Live).
12:26:17 <nijel> anyway there are certainly other options than FOSDEM, so if it's unlikely that ibennetch can attend that, we should probably look elsewhere
12:26:22 <mauriciofauth> We can send an email to members asking about the availability for FOSDEM.
12:27:18 <ibennetch> So we've talked about FOSDEM, DebConf, and the huge MySQL/PHP conferences. Nothing else comes to mind right now.
12:27:47 <ibennetch> And from the 2016-04 meeting, that was our list then, as well.
12:28:39 <nijel> Madhura has suggested http://www.mosc.my/ in August
12:29:40 <nijel> DebConf 18 will be in Taiwan
12:29:54 <nijel> ...July 29 to August 5,
12:33:28 <nijel> Okay, let's followup on the mailing list
12:33:45 <nijel> #topic Issues needing decision
12:34:00 <nijel> #link https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aundecided
12:34:26 <nijel> There are quite some issues which were marked for decision, should we go through them right now?
12:34:58 <mauriciofauth> yes
12:36:05 <ibennetch> Sure
12:36:29 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13082
12:38:26 <ibennetch> I've also started https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/wiki/Potential_conferences for coordinating upcoming conference dates. I'm not sure where to link it from, but we'll figure that out.
12:40:02 <nijel> ibennetch: good idea
12:40:10 <ibennetch> I guess this can be a feature request for the new Query tab, although I don't quite see what is meant by "normal drawing instead of point and click"
12:41:52 <nijel> I don't get it as well, I also don't see how it should be different from current visual stuff
12:43:24 <ibennetch> I don't know what to say about this, but I know there are some unresolved issues and improvments I'd like to make from the work of my GSoC students.
12:43:38 <ibennetch> So maybe we can leave this open for another month or two?
12:44:44 <nijel> okay
12:44:46 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13127
12:45:11 <nijel> I think we should close this one, I really don't see why we should support such customization
12:45:32 <ibennetch> I agree
12:45:51 <mauriciofauth> I agree
12:46:22 <ibennetch> You and I thought the same thing, with your comment in the tracker where you said that if there were more widgets it would make sense. But right now it's really just the three version panes (database, web server, and phpMyAdmin).
12:46:52 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13170
12:47:39 <mauriciofauth> I don't think that's a good idea.
12:48:01 <ibennetch> It's always nice to have such information available, but I don't think it's a good idea.
12:48:14 <nijel> Okay, closed :-)
12:48:24 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13319
12:48:37 <ibennetch> We get enough feedback from users when we break or change something :)
12:49:22 <ibennetch> Fundamentally I'm not against integrating some sort of API functionality, but I don't think it's worth developer resources to implement.
12:49:44 <ibennetch> It doesn't really help our interface and there are other tools to do exports on the command line, for instance.
12:49:54 <nijel> I don't think we have manpower to implement such thing. Also there has not been really big demand for this...
12:49:55 <mauriciofauth> In the future we can have some kind of API.
12:49:55 <ibennetch> I'd say this is out of scope.
12:50:22 <mauriciofauth> But for now it's very complicated
12:50:32 <nijel> Okay, closed
12:50:42 <ibennetch> We just don't have the resources.
12:50:49 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13406
12:51:03 <nijel> I'd close this simply for lack of use case
12:51:45 <mauriciofauth> I see no reason for this.
12:51:46 <ibennetch> I'm indifferent. If someone wants it, it's probably easy enough to add just for them, but I also don't see much of a use case for it.
12:52:03 <ibennetch> You can close it, that's fine.
12:53:10 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13514
12:54:03 <ibennetch> Fundamentally, we can't show all of the options to everyone. We have to decide what gets hidden. His question about why not is simply a matter of cluttering the interface.
12:54:27 <ibennetch> Maybe we can make the +Options button bigger or more obvious, but I think this can stay hidden.
12:54:47 <mauriciofauth> For me, we can change + Options to + Advanced Options.
12:56:18 <mauriciofauth> I don't think that all options should be visible
13:01:02 <nijel> Okay, I've changed label and closed the issue (using what ibennetch has written here)
13:01:06 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13542
13:01:47 <nijel> this is really related to slow resizing of menus, see https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13694 as well
13:01:56 <nijel> we probably should do something about this
13:03:11 <ibennetch> Yes, we can leave this open.
13:03:18 <mauriciofauth> I agree
13:03:49 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13557
13:05:01 <nijel> The current ordering has some logic, though it's not really obvious
13:05:47 <ibennetch> Can we make an optgroup label that says "Suggested" and "All functions" or something like that?
13:06:11 <ibennetch> I mean, it's already got the dashes there, so it's probably just changing the label. But would that improve the interface enough?
13:08:08 <nijel> I don't know. Maybe we should ask in the issue? :-)
13:08:48 <mauriciofauth> We can not just close. We should leave the separation more obvious or change to the alphabetical order.
13:09:31 <ibennetch> Okay
13:11:28 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13610
13:13:28 <nijel> It's really about the audience we expect. If we expect people know nothing about SQL, that the default search option indeed should work like described in the issue...
13:13:58 <mauriciofauth> I don't know what to say about it.
13:14:42 <ibennetch> I'm confused by this; aren't we talking about the table-level search dialog, which has a dropdown for each column to select "=", "LIKE", "REGEXP" and more?
13:15:20 <ibennetch> https://pasteboard.co/GOrefDk.png
13:15:22 <nijel> ibennetch: Yes, that's it ... the default option for string fields is LIKE
13:15:33 <nijel> exactly ;-)
13:16:10 <nijel> I was thinking about having default option called substring search, which would do LIKE %...% with escaping of the text
13:17:24 <ibennetch> I always thought the default should be LIKE %...% but I don't think we should change the default to regexp
13:18:09 <nijel> indeed regexp would be even more confusing for some users...
13:19:26 <nijel> Okay, let's keep that open and wait for clarification
13:19:29 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13697
13:20:47 <nijel> I don't think it's worth implementing
13:23:43 <ibennetch> I agree
13:24:16 <ibennetch> I do sort of see an edge case where it's useful, but I don't think we have the manpower to devote to it.
13:24:37 <mauriciofauth> Maybe as a label system. But it's not worth it for now, maybe in the future this might be revisited.
13:24:45 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13701
13:27:24 <ibennetch> I see how this is a difficulty, but I don't have a solution in mind.
13:27:47 <mauriciofauth> I prefer the way it is implemented today.
13:28:05 <ibennetch> Unless we parse all the results, then compute the length of each one, and do some math to work out how long the table header should be, then find somewhere to split it...
13:28:12 <nijel> I also prefer current state, not sure if it makes sense to add an option for this
13:28:35 <ibennetch> If a company has column names that_are_really_long_and_descriptive_it_can_be_annoying.
13:29:03 <mauriciofauth> You can reduce the size of the column manually.
13:29:04 <ibennetch> I know a guy who enforced a prefix like table_ on every table, so you can know it's not a view.
13:29:09 <ibennetch> Fortunately, I didn't have to work with him :)
13:29:19 <ibennetch> Good point.
13:30:32 <ibennetch> I don't have much to add here; I realize it's a difficulty but haven't heard a good solution yet.
13:31:08 <nijel> Okay, I've closed this one as well
13:31:18 <nijel> #topic https://github.com/phpmyadmin/phpmyadmin/issues/13705
13:31:22 <nijel> Last one ;-)
13:32:34 <ibennetch> No, we already have too many tabs. I vote to close.
13:33:18 <mauriciofauth> I vote to close
13:35:38 <nijel> Closed, thanks for going through the whole list
13:35:42 <nijel> Any other topic to discuss?
13:36:21 <mauriciofauth> I have nothing in mind
13:36:22 <ibennetch> No, I think we've done great
13:36:42 <nijel> Great, thanks for attending and see you next month
13:37:36 <nijel> #endmeeting